Will the plane take off :: The Ultimate Debate

[TessleR]

If the treadmill is moving in opposite direction at the same exact speed, the plane is not moving, all that is moving are the wheels.

Imagine the same experiment in a wind tunnel, a small plane on a treadmill moving the opposite direction. Now do the experiment with 300 MPH wind, then do it with no wind at all. The plane will not take off if there is no lift drag, so without 300 MPH wind it just wont happen. It will just sit motionless as a car does during a horsepower test.

[AMidgetAndAClub]

Originally Posted by TessleR

If the treadmill is moving in opposite direction at the same exact speed, the plane is not moving, all that is moving are the wheels.

Imagine the same experiment in a wind tunnel, a small plane on a treadmill moving the opposite direction. Now do the experiment with 300 MPH wind, then do it with no wind at all. The plane will not take off, it will just sit motionless as a car does during a horsepower test.

The wheels are a moot point. They are free spinning. The plane motor does not power the wheels. The plane motor has no relation to the ground. The wheels are merely holding the plane up.

[TessleR]

Originally Posted by AMidgetAndAClub

The wheels are a moot point. They are free spinning. The plane motor does not power the wheels. The plane motor has no relation to the ground. The wheels are merely holding the plane up.

So what then lifts the plane? If it sits essentially motionless with the engines on at full take off blast, a conveyor belt at the same speed in the opposite direction, and an average outside windspeed at 10 MPH, how does the plane lift?

[AMidgetAndAClub]

Originally Posted by TessleR

So what then lifts the plane? If it sits essentially motionless with the engines on at full take off blast, a conveyor belt at the same speed in the opposite direction, and an average outside windspeed at 10 MPH, how does the plane lift?

Ok. The treadmill is moving backwards at 150mph. The plane needs to move forwards at 150mph to create enough lift to take off. Keep in mind we are talking a treadmill the size of a normal runway. The planes wheels are free spinning. The amount of friction on the wheels do not matter. The power is not coming from the wheels. It is coming from the engine that is connected to the plane. The engine just needs to push against the plane. The fact that the treadmill is moving backwards at 150mph does not matter. Because the plane is on free spinning wheels that basically do not need to exist other then to hold the plane up. When the thrust of the engines is pushing, it is pushing on the body of the plane. The treadmill could be moving forward with the plane and it would still move forward at the same rate of speed.

[PhaLanX]

Originally Posted by AMidgetAndAClub

Ok. The treadmill is moving backwards at 150mph. The plane needs to move forwards at 150mph to create enough lift to take off. Keep in mind we are talking a treadmill the size of a normal runway. The planes wheels are free spinning. The amount of friction on the wheels do not matter. The power is not coming from the wheels. It is coming from the engine that is connected to the plane. The engine just needs to push against the plane. The fact that the treadmill is moving backwards at 150mph does not matter. Because the plane is on free spinning wheels that basically do not need to exist other then to hold the plane up. When the thrust of the engines is pushing, it is pushing on the body of the plane. The treadmill could be moving forward with the plane and it would still move forward at the same rate of speed.

Everytime I see a post that references the treadmill affecting the wheels thus chanigng the planes speed, I always want to reply... only to look one post down and see Midget post the exact thing Im thinking. GET OUT OF MY HEAD, Midget!!!!

[Lee]

Okay, I just went and tried it.

Its official. It works.

[PhaLanX]

I think the idea that people are missing is that the speed that the airplane needs to lift/take off is in relation to the ground it sits on, when in reality its in relation to the earth itself...

Going back to my post before. The wheels serve only to keep the plane off the ground and make it able to 'roll' on the ground when the engines are engaged.

Picture a plane... then remove its wheels and it floats in the air. it cannot move up (lift off) until it is moving at a certain speed in relation to the earth such that the wind is creating enough drag. if the plane doesnt have wheels and the engines move just enough to keep it going slowly @ the same height.... the plane will never be able to go higher. but when it gets up to liftoff speed, it can in fact... lift off. The ground/runway, besides providing the solid ground to roll on, serves no purpose.

[TessleR]

Originally Posted by AMidgetAndAClub

Ok. The treadmill is moving backwards at 150mph. The plane needs to move forwards at 150mph to create enough lift to take off. Keep in mind we are talking a treadmill the size of a normal runway. The planes wheels are free spinning. The amount of friction on the wheels do not matter. The power is not coming from the wheels. It is coming from the engine that is connected to the plane. The engine just needs to push against the plane. The fact that the treadmill is moving backwards at 150mph does not matter. Because the plane is on free spinning wheels that basically do not need to exist other then to hold the plane up. When the thrust of the engines is pushing, it is pushing on the body of the plane. The treadmill could be moving forward with the plane and it would still move forward at the same rate of speed.

Forgetting the wheels completely, the plane is not moving against the wind at all, that's because it's not moving at all. All it is is a plane on full blast with the same speed it's reaching moving beneath it rendering it immobile. There is no way for the plane to lift if it is not creating lift by cutting through the opposing wind.

YouTube - FERRARI 355 DYNO RUN

Now imagine that Ferrari to be a plane, how could there possibly be enough wind to lift and immobile plane running at full power?

[SiR MuMbLeZ]

Someone should try this with a little model plane or some shlt on a treadmill. I think a lot of you guys are missing that the plane would not be moving so it wouldn't be catching air underneath its wings to be able to cause the "lift" effect.

[PhaLanX]

Originally Posted by TessleR

Forgetting the wheels completely, the plane is not moving against the wind at all, that's because it's not moving at all. All it is is a plane on full blast with the same speed it's reaching moving beneath it rendering it immobile. There is no way for the plane to lift if it is not creating lift by cutting through the opposing wind.

Now imagine that Ferrari to be a plane, how could there possibly be enough wind to lift and immobile plane running at full power?

You cannt compare a car to a plane. The cars speed is controlled by the wheels, which are control by the engine. A planes speed is controlled by its engine and the planes speed vs the earth/wind which creates drag. The wheels and actual earth itself do not affect this.